[Podcast] FDE+ | Revenue Drift: The Hidden Threat to Relationship-Driven Revenue with Benjamin Mena, Managing Partner – Select Source Solutions

Benjamin Mena [00:00:00]:
My desk got quieter. Not collapsed, not catastrophic failure, just quieter. Client conversations were happening less. My submittals slowed down. My pipeline wasn’t what it used to be. Here’s the thing. I wasn’t being lazy. I was working constantly.

Benjamin Mena [00:00:17]:
I was busy every single day. And that’s when I realized I wasn’t failing. Even though I started to feel like a failure, I was drifting.

Kortney Harmon [00:00:27]:
Hey, guys.

Kortney Harmon [00:00:27]:
Kortney Harmon, host of fde. In case you missed it, we recently

Kortney Harmon [00:00:32]:
hosted a live virtual event, and it

Kortney Harmon [00:00:34]:
was one for the books. We brought together some of the best thought leaders in the recruiting and staffing industry for two full days of real, no fluff conversations. And what’s actually working right now? From building trust with clients to using AI without losing your edge, to growing revenue through relationships. These sessions were absolutely incredible, and we didn’t want you to miss out. So we turned turned every single session into its own episode. And over the coming weeks, we’re dropping them one by one right here. Each episode is a standalone session from the event. So whether you’re tuning in for the first time or you were there live and you want to revisit all of your favorites, there’s something for you.

Kortney Harmon [00:01:17]:
Stay tuned.

Kortney Harmon [00:01:18]:
You’re going to want to hear from every single one of our speakers. Trust me.

Kortney Harmon [00:01:22]:
Enjoy. Welcome, everybody. I am so glad you’re here. You don’t know. My name’s Kortney Harmon. I’m the director of industry relations here at Crelate, and I’m going to be your host for the next two days. I got nothing to talk about. I am just introducing some wonderful speakers.

Kortney Harmon [00:01:40]:
And I have to tell you, I’m really been looking forward to this event for a while, and not because this lineup is put together with some amazing speakers with some amazing titles and credentials, even though that’s true, there are plenty of those. But because every person you’re going to hear from actually does this work or working with firms that are doing this work, they’ve built firms, they’ve trained teams, they’ve made placements, they had deals fall apart, and they’re really figuring out what’s moving the needle right now in our industry, that is ever changing. So over the next two days, you’re going to hear from around 14 speakers and panelists who each have direct, specific answers to questions that you might have. So I would love for you to stay engaged, not just passively watch, ask questions. And we’re going to be kicking today off with seven sessions covering anything from revenue drift to monetization of trust and deeper relationships in a World of AI. So with day one, I am super excited to welcome my friend and someone who has really spent over 20 years in the trenches of recruiting. From leading hiring efforts to some of the most complex government defense contracts in the country, to founding Select Source Solutions, a boutique firm for go to government contractors. And also the host of the Elite Recruiter podcast and all of his wonderful virtual events.

Kortney Harmon [00:02:58]:
He doesn’t like to talk about himself, but I will talk about him. Amazing, because he is one of the best. He has interviewed hundreds of billers and agency founders. So, Ben, thank you so much for bringing us one of the most honest conversations that we can have. And we’re kicking off with one of the best today. So welcome. Thank you for joining us.

Benjamin Mena [00:03:14]:
I’m excited to be here. Real quick, drop in the chat. Have you ever by chance got to hear Kortney speak? I want to see a yes or no. Like, is this your first time getting a chance to be around Kortney?

Kortney Harmon [00:03:25]:
No need to say that I’m crazy in the chat. Okay, John, Awesome. There’s a few.

Benjamin Mena [00:03:33]:
So I’m super grateful that I get to work with you guys. Kick things off. Here’s the thing. There’s going to be a lot of speakers today, a lot of information. Make sure to follow every single one of the speakers and if there’s a speaker later on today or tomorrow that has actually you believe has made an impact, send them a message or post about it on LinkedIn. This is a lot of time out of, like, I’ve put on events. So I know the stress that Kortney is going through right now, the freaking out and maybe like a little bit of hair loss and everything beforehand because you just never know what’s happening behind the scenes.

Kortney Harmon [00:04:05]:
Oh, not wrong.

Benjamin Mena [00:04:07]:
So, but I’m actually, I normally give like an AI talk because, like, you know, I get to touch AI, I get to see a lot of things. But this talk, I actually want to be honest with you guys. I want to examine my business, examine my life, examine what’s been happening with me. And the reason why is I, I want to do that is because I know it’s happening to other people too. So my talk is going to be called Revenue Drift and it’s how recruiters slowly lose their edge and how to get it back. And that’s really, like, this is like almost a bit of a self evaluation with me. So real quick, before I get going on everything, I just want to be honest with you guys. I am not an expert, I am not a guru.

Benjamin Mena [00:04:48]:
I genuinely have nothing to sell you guys today. Most of the time I’m on the other side of this. I get to sit there, be behind the mic. I get to just ask some good questions. I get to shut up and get out of the way and just try to highlight other people. So speaking to you guys is not my normal forte. So just want to be honest with you guys as I get this up, but my name is Benjamin Mehta. I’m a GovCon headhunter.

Benjamin Mena [00:05:11]:
Almost 20 years in the space, actually over 20 years now. I’m the host of the Elite Recruiter Podcast where we’ve had over 300 plus episodes. Now I’m also host of the Pinnacle Take podcast for the Pinnacle Society and do some virtual summits. We’ve had almost 12,000 people attend those over the last few years and also have the community called the Elite Recruiter Community. So just a group of recruiters that are just awesome, trying to grow together. So a little bit about me, but the main reason why I wanted to give this specific talk today is because something that I’ve had to admit to myself, something uncomfortable, and I’m going to say it out loud. Over the last few years, I’ve built something that I am so proud of. The podcast has grown.

Benjamin Mena [00:05:55]:
We’ve done summits, we got a community speaking at conferences like this one right now with you guys right here. But somewhere in the midst of all that building, my desk got quieter. Not collapsed, not catastrophic failure, just quieter. Client conversations were happening less. My submittal slowed down. My pipeline wasn’t what it used to be. And I just had to sit with that for a while. I had to sit there and self analyze what is happening.

Benjamin Mena [00:06:22]:
Which is hard because here’s the thing, I wasn’t being lazy. I was working constantly. I was busy every single day. And that’s when I realized I wasn’t failing. Even though I started to feel like a failure, I was drifting. And that’s when I started to look at the entire industry through this lens. I saw it everywhere. So that’s what today’s about.

Benjamin Mena [00:06:44]:
It’s not theory, it’s not some framework that I invented. It’s just some honest truth about what’s happening to a lot of us right now and what we can actually do about it. So right now, drop in the chat. What is pulling your attention away from your desk right now? Operations. So true. Diversification in other areas. I get that one. I understand that one a lot.

Benjamin Mena [00:07:04]:
Constant updates on new AI tools flooding in the inbox. Yes. Oh my God. So for a lot of people, I’m guessing like the answers are something like this, even if you’re not like it’s saying it out loud. It’s a new AI tool. LinkedIn content, webinars, strategy sessions, conferences, building your brand. And look, none of these things are bad. I do them all.

Benjamin Mena [00:07:26]:
Like, literally at this point, that is my entire brand. All the things that I’m saying that are pulling me away from your desk. But here’s what happened. I wrote a podcast on how to become a better recruiter while accidentally becoming a worse recruiter. So here’s what nobody talks about. Every single hour that you spend on stuff, on that stuff is an hour that you are not spinning on the four things that produce revenue in this business. Client conversations, candidate conversations, submittals and offer control. That’s it.

Benjamin Mena [00:07:56]:
Everything else, every tool, every framework, at every strategy session. It only matters if those four things happen faster, better, or more often. It doesn’t. It’s a shiny object. And right now our industry is absolutely drowning in shiny objects. And I’m part to blame for that. So here’s how drift actually happens. You get a little busy.

Benjamin Mena [00:08:17]:
You push the BD call for tomorrow. You hear about some new AI tool that can save you hours of time. So you spend a Tuesday afternoon testing it. Instead of calling clients, you get invited to speak somewhere not obviously talking about myself, but you spend time building slide decks instead of working on your pipeline. You start posting on LinkedIn because somebody told you your personal brand drives inbound. Guess what that person might have been? That person might have been me. So your mornings go into content instead of conversations. And slowly, almost invisibly, you start doing more stuff that feels like progress and less stuff that is actually progress.

Benjamin Mena [00:08:57]:
That right there is drift. And here’s the thing I want you to take home today more than anything else. Revenue doesn’t collapse, it drifts. Say that to yourself. Revenue doesn’t collapse, it drifts because a collapse you would notice. A collapse creates urgency. A collapse makes you act. Drift feels fine.

Benjamin Mena [00:09:18]:
Until it doesn’t. So here’s the part that really got me thinking when I started thinking about this. There’s really a 60 to 90 day lag between your activity and your revenue. Like, think about what that actually means. By the time the drift hits your bank account, by the time your pipeline looks thinned, the placements are slowing down, and you’re having this uncomfortable conversation with yourself about what’s happening. You’ve already been drifting for months. The pain that you’re feeling in March is from what you stopped doing in November and December. You do not feel drift in real time, you feel it on a delay.

Benjamin Mena [00:09:53]:
And that delay is expensive. Real quick drop in the chat, making it yes or no, yes or no, making it easy for you guys. Has anyone ever had a slow quarter and then realized, looking back in hindsight, that the problem actually started two to three months earlier? Absolutely. Every single time I’ve asked that question to somebody, every single time I’ve looked at myself and asked that question internally, the answer is yes. So now here’s where it gets even worse. Because drift has a best friend and that best friend is the market excuse. It’s a tough market right now, man. Hiring’s frozen.

Benjamin Mena [00:10:34]:
Clients just aren’t moving. And look, I want to be fair here, those things are sometimes true. The market is generally difficult for a lot of people right now. I’m not going to pretend otherwise. Like perfect example, when dosh hit the govcon industry, I slowed down. But here’s the thing. I interviewed a top biller recently in my niche. I slowed down.

Benjamin Mena [00:10:57]:
He built $2 million. I drifted, he didn’t. And I have sat across the microphone from recruiters who built 800k plus in the same market where peers, their peers are struggling to build 200k. Same market, same conditions, same tools, completely different habits. The market excuse is real enough to feel legitimate. And that’s exactly why it makes it so dangerous, because it gives drift somewhere to hide. You’re not drifting, the market is slow. That one story, that one story that you tell yourself will cost you more than any market downturn ever will.

Benjamin Mena [00:11:35]:
But I want to talk about something that’s hitting us all. Like this is something that we all have dealt with not individually, industry wide. This is another drift. And I know that we all have personally gone through it. It’s the feast and famine of business development cycle. And this is exactly how it goes. You slow down, you go hard on bd, you land some searches, you get busy filling them and because you’re busy, your BD stops completely. Searches close.

Benjamin Mena [00:12:03]:
Pipeline is now dry panic sprint on BD again. Like, you’re going, you’re going, you’re going, you’re going. Made some more searches, get busy again, BD stops round and round and round. Like this isn’t just drift, this is drift on a loop. And it’s really dangerous thing because this cycle feels like productivity. During the feast you’re billing, you’re busy, you feel like a top performer, you’re looking at your numbers at the end of the year, like, man, I am going to crush 750,000 if I’m keeping up this pace. I’m going to crush 500,000. I’m going to have my best year ever.

Benjamin Mena [00:12:37]:
But you’re literally building the next famine at the exact same time you’re celebrating the feast. Trisha Tamkin, one of my good friends, well respected trainer in the industry, and she’s talking tomorrow, said something on my podcast that I keep coming back to. She said the only way to get off the roller coaster of the ebb and flow in our business is to be doing consistent business development. Kiwi Foot, one of my good friends also talks about it on a daily basis, creating that habit of business development. You know, think about how much time that you’ve done BD over the last few days. He talks about even 30 minutes a day. You could be outperforming other people because they’re doing zero. So here’s the thing, you need to be doing it.

Benjamin Mena [00:13:12]:
Not when you’re slow, consistent every single week, regardless of how busy you are. That right there is the whole difference. And now the second thing, and this is gonna hurt a little bit. This is actually feels a little uncomfortable for me to say because I am honest. Going to be honest with you, I am part of the problem. Our industry has started to glorify strategy over execution. Think about actually what gets rewarded publicly in recruiting right now. LinkedIn reward posts, not placements.

Benjamin Mena [00:13:39]:
Community sharing framework not filled recs, podcasts, my podcast included. It rewards thought leadership, not production numbers. And here’s the thing, like with my guests, I give them the option, do you want to talk about numbers or not? Had recently an amazing guest. Come on, he had almost his partner had no recruiting background. The last time he was recruiting was like almost 10 years ago. They did in their first year, $1.2 million. And he broke down exactly how he did it. But he didn’t want to share the production numbers because he didn’t like, didn’t want to scare his clients away.

Benjamin Mena [00:14:11]:
All my guests, like we, I give them the option, do you want to do that or not? Some do, some don’t. But it’s always important to like. As you’re weaving through these conversations, figure out what can actually help you move the needle. But here’s the thing, like nobody posts like, I have 12 client conversations today. Like on LinkedIn. The post is like, hey, here’s my seven step system for scaling my desk to seven figures. Comment seven and I’ll send you the framework 3,000 comments later. 77777.

Benjamin Mena [00:14:39]:
The algorithm rewards that. And then the problem is that sends a Signal across the entire industry that strategy likes. And I know there’s going to be some amazing speakers later on talking about how to actually Effectively post on LinkedIn for your clients and actually effectively build a brand. But the thing that you see most of the time across the industry now is the algorithm is rewarding the wrong things. And that strategy is more important, impressive than execution. And that signal accelerates drift because in this industry, applauding the person that’s building content and speaking at summits, and there’s so many great people that I, I, I think should be speaking in my place, we are rewarding that, but we’re not rewarding the person that is staying quiet behind the scenes, grinding through client calls every single day. And as we start seeing this, your brain starts to reweight what actually matters. And I say this as somebody who has a podcast, somebody who hosts summits, somebody who has a community, and somebody that’s speaking at a virtual conference right now.

Benjamin Mena [00:15:41]:
The content side of this industry has real value. I genuinely believe that. And it’s important. Do not get rid of it. Listen, figure out how to do this, but it cannot replace your desk. Relationships are the engine, activity is the fuel. And when you spend more time talking about recruiting than actually recruiting, your engine runs dry. So after 300 plus conversations with top billers, here’s what I kept expecting to find, especially when I started the podcast.

Benjamin Mena [00:16:08]:
Not so much now, but when I started it out. Was it some secret tool, Some underground framework? Something the top 1% knew that nobody else was talking about? And here’s what I actually found. They protect a small set of fundamentals and do them consistently, even when it’s not exciting. Especially when it’s not exciting. Five. Habits. That’s it. They show up in almost every single high biller I talk to.

Benjamin Mena [00:16:36]:
Habit one, Top billers talk to clients consistently. Not just when a search opens, not when there’s a problem they’re calling a share market intelligence. They’re checking in, they’re staying close even when there’s literally nothing to sell right now. Because when the urgent search drops, and it always does, eventually they’re the ones that are always already the trusted advisor in the room. Brett Ursuga said something on my podcast that I want you to sit with. He said, am I a partner or am I a vendor? Think about that for your clients. Are you a partner or are you a vendor? And that’s the whole question. Partners get a call first.

Benjamin Mena [00:17:17]:
Vendors get the email where the rec’s already been shopped around to four other firms Daily conversations are how you stay a partner. Habit two, Speed is trust in this business. Amy Simpson, a Pinnacle Society member, told me a story on my podcast that I, I think about every single time when there’s something else I could be doing other than working my desk. Listen. This Monday, she found her guy. Submitted him the same day. Tuesday video interview Tuesday afternoon, calling committed, Wednesday afternoon. Offer accepted.

Benjamin Mena [00:17:49]:
That’s the whole story. That’s it. Like, that’s the stuff that we that should be getting the rewarding. But here’s the thing. The recruiter who moves fast signals something to their client. It says, I know this market. I am the expert. I took your search seriously.

Benjamin Mena [00:18:03]:
I’m not playing games with you. I am the the expert. You called me. Elite billers don’t sit around, they move. They know how to stay closest to the money while taking care of their clients. And that conversation that, that candidate that she placed, it’s somebody because she knows the market so well. It’s somebody that she talked to like something like 45 days ago but was easily able to go like, hey, boom, boom, boom. That’s the stuff that we should be rewarding.

Benjamin Mena [00:18:26]:
Habit 3. And I want to tell you about somebody that I know personally. And this story is the best proof I’ve ever seen what happens when you stop chasing results and start obsessing over the process. His name is Randy Staats. And when I had Randy on the podcast, here is where he was before his turnaround. $500 left in the bank, credit cards, maxed out, payday loans, a mortgage, a wife that just had a baby. His wife just quit her job because of to be a stay at home mom. And he told me this.

Benjamin Mena [00:18:57]:
I’m going to quote him directly because I want you to actually feel this. I just wanted to cry every day. I didn’t want to get out of bed. I was super depressed, definitely overweight, stress, eating 75 cups of coffee. My brain couldn’t shut off. That’s rock bottom, that’s real. But here’s what Randy did. He didn’t quit.

Benjamin Mena [00:19:15]:
He didn’t go find a job somewhere else. He drew a line in the sand, got some coaching, made one decision to stop looking at the results, start showing up for the process. What he did, he said he gamified his desk. He turned every single revenue producing activity into points, client calls, points, interview, scheduled points, submittal points. And he said something that I wrote down immediately. He stopped looking at the fills. He looked at the points, not did I make a placement today? Did I hit my points Today. And here’s what happened.

Benjamin Mena [00:19:46]:
By the end of the year, he went from $500 in his bank account to billing almost 900,000. Same fundamentals, same market, same phone. Just relentless, consistent focus on the process. He said it best to himself. The comeback doesn’t happen if you just give up. The comeback happens because you show up every day. And it was consistent. And I, he didn’t care about the results.

Benjamin Mena [00:20:09]:
I just knew my mind I was going to win and I had no other backup plan. No other backup plan. That is the best example I’ve ever seen. Protecting the process when everything else is on the line and lead recruiters, pre close habit number four, they don’t wait until the offer stage to discover there’s a problem. They spend a lot of time talking to the candidates. They’re asking their candidates the hard questions, the counteroffer risk, competing opportunities, real salary expectations, what’s going on with their family, all of it early. Like what could be something that blows it up Because a falling offer just doesn’t hurt your revenue. It can damage a relationship that you’ve been building for months.

Benjamin Mena [00:20:45]:
And in a relationship powered business, that’s a real cost. And if, if this is something that you didn’t ask earlier, something you didn’t like, I mean, yes, we all have our surprises, but man, how much more time are you also going to spend on that? Search for something that you could have easily nipped in the butter early on and maybe even found another candidate. Especially if a search can take a few months and if it’s a high level search. Number five. I think this is actually the most important habit of this whole list and it’s definitely the easiest one to lose. Top billers protect their time when there’s nothing to even when there’s nothing. Top billers protect blocks of time where they do nothing but recruit or nothing but BD. No email, no Slack, no strategy sessions, no LinkedIn, no podcast stuff.

Benjamin Mena [00:21:32]:
Just recruiting. I know. Like one of my good friends, Scott Love talks about four hour. His goal every single day is four hours of talk time. He protects it. With everything else he’s doing, he protects that time. Julie Arpog, who built a 500k desk in nine months, solo recruiter, new mom. She actually kicked off her business because she got laid off while on maternity leave and had to do something.

Benjamin Mena [00:21:53]:
And she said something is so simple that I wrote it down immediately. She said sales can feel scary and huge, but if you just walk off an hour of your day, you can knock that out one hour. Protect it Daily. That’s it. Trisha Tamkin describe this, her own version of this. I start my day exactly the same way every day. I close my day exactly the same way every day. And what made me successful is the massive amounts of consistency in all my daily activities.

Benjamin Mena [00:22:21]:
Not motivation, not talent, not the best tech stack. It’s consistency. So remember, this is so important. Relationships are the engine, activity is the fuel. And when we spend more time talking about recruiting than actually recruiting, that engine runs dry. So when you’re sitting here right now and if some of this has landed with you personally, if you recognize any of this in yourself, here’s what I want you to do. No big overhaul. Not a new system, not a new tool to learn.

Benjamin Mena [00:22:56]:
Just five simple rules for 30 days. And like, let’s just call it the 30 day edge reclaim. We just got done doing a 30 day business development habits, like 30 days of focusing on BD habits in the community. So I think, and I think 30 days is just so important. One, cap your active searches at five. Work them hard. And I know if you’re listening to this and you’re like, man, I’d love to have five searches go down the list. But I remember talking to somebody recently, they’re like, oh Yeah, I have 1600 searches I can work on.

Benjamin Mena [00:23:24]:
When you have 1600 searches that you can work on, you really aren’t working on any. But these five own them completely. Quality over volume every single time. And here’s the thing, what I’ve learned from a lot of top billers, once you close some really good searches, you can go deeper in these accounts. Most top billers have a few A accounts that they can go deep in a few B accounts. And then the other ones are the C’s. Those A’s and B’s, especially the A’s produce a majority of the revenue. You don’t get that by sitting there focusing on 30 different recs for 30 different companies.

Benjamin Mena [00:23:57]:
Go deeper with your customers because that’s where you can get your next rec. 2, 10 real client conversations this week. Not emails, not LinkedIn, DMs, real conversations, phone calls, video calls, real human Contact. Block out 90 minutes every single day for deep recruiting work. And when I say deep recruiting work, I also mean the sales side too. Put it on your calendar. Block it out right now so nothing interrupts it. No internal meetings, no slack, no hopping on LinkedIn and looking at notifications or checking to see how many likes you’ve got.

Benjamin Mena [00:24:29]:
Recruiting only 4. Spend some time pre closing your candidates. Spend more time with Them, especially before the offer goes out. Ask the hard questions, set the expectations. No surprises. And five. Every single Friday, spend five minutes, spend 10 minutes, grab a piece of paper and give yourself a reality check. What searches are real? What candidates are actually moving? Where do you need to apply pressure? That’s it.

Benjamin Mena [00:24:57]:
I know. Not in some crazy framework, embarrassing, simple. But here’s what 300 plus conversations with some of the best recruiters in the world taught me. Complexity is where drift hides. Simplicity is where revenue lives. And I’ll say this again. Complexity is where drift hides. Simplicity is where revenue lives.

Benjamin Mena [00:25:20]:
And I started this talk by telling you guys that my desk got quieter and it wouldn’t end at the same way that I started. Just being honest. Studying the best recruiters in the world didn’t just help me understand their habits, it reminded me of mine. The fundamentals don’t stop working. I just stopped doing them. And the thing about drift, it’s not a character flaw. It’s not laziness. It’s not failure.

Benjamin Mena [00:25:45]:
You are not a failure. It’s what happens when ambitious people start doing building things. And the thing is, anything you’re building naturally gets your attention. I get it. I’ve lived it. The antidote isn’t to stop building something, especially if you’re working on something on the side. It’s to protect the engine that funds everything else. Relationships are the engine.

Benjamin Mena [00:26:03]:
Activity is the fuel. And 90 days from now, remember that. 90 days from now. The choices you make this week show up in your revenue. And here’s my challenge. Just one thing. Pick a habit from the list. Just one, Protect it this week and watch what happens.

Benjamin Mena [00:26:19]:
Thank you guys so much.

Kortney Harmon [00:26:21]:
Oh, my gosh. How true is that? I used to have one of the trainers at mri, he always used to joke, you know how like the whole apple a day keeps the doctor away? He used to say, a business development call block a day keeps poverty away. And that’s all that, like, kept going through my head while you were talking today, Ben. It was just. It was like a stage spot on to. You don’t know what’s happening till it’s too late. I love that.

Benjamin Mena [00:26:48]:
I remember early on, like, when I first started the podcast, Rich Rosen told me something. He was like a smiddle. A day keeps poverty away. So, yeah, completely on point with that.

Kortney Harmon [00:26:57]:
So I love it. We saw Ben for a few more minutes. Does anybody have any questions? Brooke did have a question as you were talking. Your advice sounds more relevant for contingent search firms. Do you think it also attains to replies to retain search.

Benjamin Mena [00:27:11]:
I think it does. And I’ve seen this with executive recruiters, too. And it’s like one of the things, if you are an executive recruiter retained search firm, so often you’re more focused on the process. You are getting paid for the process. But I’ve seen a lot of them over time, they’re so focused on the process, they don’t have their next few searches lined up. And, like, whatever you’re closing, you can like. I actually just got done with a podcast interview with somebody. She only made one placement last year.

Benjamin Mena [00:27:37]:
That one placement was $1.3 million in fees.

Kortney Harmon [00:27:40]:
Yeah.

Benjamin Mena [00:27:41]:
So. But she talked about, like, every day. She’s having constant conversations. She actually talked about everything that she’s like, building. Every client that she’s talking to, all the candidates that she’s talking to. For the retained side, you just might need to stretch this out a little longer, but you don’t need to forget. I see. I’ve seen people forget to do a lot of the basics, and when that one search runs dry or that one search is filled, they might not have something else.

Kortney Harmon [00:28:08]:
I love it. You guys don’t have any other questions? Hopefully you’re in these QR codes to join Ben’s group.

Benjamin Mena [00:28:17]:
So the three QR codes, one of them is I actually put on summits myself. We have a summit coming up called this is your year. I truly believe 2026, for every single person here. You’re learning, you’re growing. This is a year to go delusionally all in. Go delusionally all in on your work, go all in on everything that you can do. I make this your year. And that’s the reason why I’ve named that summit, this is your year.

Benjamin Mena [00:28:43]:
Because I want you to just excuse my language. Effing crush it. I believe you can crush it. And I truly believe right now we’re in a small window of time before AI has a huge impact. Like, we keep on talking about the impact. And I didn’t want to do an AI talk. AI is coming. I don’t know at the end of the day what’s going to happen.

Benjamin Mena [00:29:04]:
So right now is a time that you need to go all in and take care of your desk, take care of your family, take care of your clients, take care of the lives that you’re going to change. And that’s what this summit is about. If you want to join the community, that’s the middle of $1 49amonth. And the one on the right is the podcast on Spotify. If this was a good talk for you, or if you enjoyed it, I’d love for you to hop in there and click a follow. And it’s not about me. It’s not about me trying to get more followers or me trying to get more downloads. Like, the people that are coming on this podcast, they have one goal in mind.

Benjamin Mena [00:29:37]:
So often when they come on, it’s not about pumping their ego up. It’s what can I share right now that would have helped? I would have needed a year ago. What can I share right now that what I would have needed a few years ago. And that’s the frame of how these podcast interviews go. Like, what did they need in the moment? And how can they share that with somebody else? How can they share that work? It can impact another life.

Kortney Harmon [00:30:01]:
So I have a question for you. We’re going to turn this into a mini podcast question. All of the AI, I mean, if you follow you and understand what you provide to the community, it’s so much more. So a thank you for being the voice of reason with all of this. But what is the biggest lesson learned with all of the AI in our industry right now? From your perspective, from what you’re hearing, what you’re seeing, what you’re using yourself, Not a tool, a thing. Obviously focused and don’t let the drift happen. But is there any other happenings that are like, front of mind to be? Like, don’t forget this.

Benjamin Mena [00:30:34]:
I would spend some evening time, some weekend time, just like, trying to keep up. And it is so hard to keep up right now. Like the speed of the way things are changing. If you tell me that you’re an expert by next week, I know you’re not an expert anymore.

Kortney Harmon [00:30:46]:
Yeah.

Benjamin Mena [00:30:47]:
So I would. The tech is happening. Figure out the tech. But at the same time, I really, truly believe the fundamentals is what’s going to get you ahead. At least for the rest of this year. I am seeing stuff like coming on the pipeline of I can drop a resume in and it will auto spec to companies, auto NPC to companies. You know, I do. I use metaview for my podcast pregame.

Benjamin Mena [00:31:08]:
And now with Claude, I could just sit there and like type into Claude, like, hey, da, da, da, da. You know, I didn’t want you to pull my transcript out of Metaview and analyze it for some pregame for a podcast interview. So I don’t even have to go into these systems anymore. I’m pulling everything into. There’s some stuff that you can do with like GPTs and chat GPTs, but I mean, it’s just the challenge is because it’s now so easily you can now build things on yourself and like, I don’t know if you’ve started vibe coding, Kortney.

Kortney Harmon [00:31:35]:
Yes, just recently and honestly, the new updates with Claude, the cloud code, Claude Cowork and all those things, like I was up at 3am, I may or may not have been able to sleep and I literally was like looking like that’s my brain can’t shut off because then whenever there’s downtime I’m looking at like, what do I need to know? How do I need to think?

Benjamin Mena [00:31:54]:
Yeah, I mean I think do this in the off hours, don’t do this on like during game time. But you can start like vibe coding or starting to put together like dashboards and stuff that like looks really cool that you can do on top of what you’re using with like, you know, Creelate, you can use AI to help expand the experience and add in like personal touches now. It’s wild what’s happening.

Kortney Harmon [00:32:15]:
It is very wild. And like you said, what is real today has changed tomorrow and is completely different by next week. So Ben, thank you so much for everything that you provide. Thank you for your talk. I think it’s something that we definitely need to think about and that is all that I have today. If you haven’t connected with Ben, his LinkedIn profile is in our chat, but I’ll also put it here again and reach out to him, tell him wonderful things because he is absolutely one of the best in our industry and I am truly grateful for his friendship.

Kortney Harmon [00:32:49]:
That’s a wrap on this episode. If this one got you thinking, just wait until you hear what’s coming next. We’re dropping a new session from the FDE Plus Q1 event every week. Each one a different speaker, a different topic, and a different angle on what really takes to build relationship driven revenue in this industry right now.

Kortney Harmon [00:33:10]:
Make sure sure you’re subscribed so you

Kortney Harmon [00:33:11]:
don’t miss the next one. We’ll see you there.

Kortney Harmon [00:00:00]:
Now for the harsh truth about technology. If your recruiting tech stack isn’t built on a living platform that continuously evolves with AI, it’s not an asset, it’s dragging you into irrelevance. So what exactly is a living platform? It’s the difference between survival and extinction. In recruiting, it evolves without you having to push it. Traditional systems require you to upgrade them. Living platforms upgrade themselves. It’s putting something in the box. And while you put it in the box, it’s getting sunlight, it’s getting water, it’s getting nutrition.

Kortney Harmon [00:00:35]:
To grow and thrive and be bigger every day. It gets smarter every day. Hi, I’m Kortney Harmon, Director of Industry Relations at crelate. Welcome to FDE Express, a short, sweet format of the Full Desk Experience, a Crelate original podcast. We’ll be diving into specific topics to show you how you grow your firm within 10 minutes or less. Each episode will cover quick hit topics to give you inspiration and food for thought for your talent businesses. Welcome back to the Fulldesk Experience where we talk about growth blockers across your people, process and tech. I’m your host, Kortney Harmon, Director of Industry Relations here at Crelate, and today we’re tackling the brutal truth that many in our industry do not want to hear.

Kortney Harmon [00:01:29]:
The traditional way you’ve been doing business in recruiting for decades is dead in a post AI world. That’s right, I said it dead. Let’s be completely transparent. If you’re still counting calls, submissions, interviews the same way you did five years ago, you’re not just falling behind, you’re already irrelevant. In an industry becoming transformed by AI. Those traditional metrics aren’t just failing to drive growth, they’re actually killing your business. So in this recruiting world, we’ve all been accustomed to certain metrics, me included the number of calls, your number of submissions, your number of interviews, and even placements. The uncomfortable truth is recruiting isn’t about filling seats.

Kortney Harmon [00:02:16]:
It’s actually about driving different business results. And your outdated KPIs are actually missing the point entirely. I had a call with a recruiting company last year. Each person on their team was actually making 50 calls daily, sending hundreds of LinkedIn messages weekly, submitting dozens of candidates. Their activity metrics looked incredible on paper, but as we dug deeper, their placement rates has actually dropped 15% and consultation retention was at an all time low. Our teams often get stuck in this hamster wheel of manual data. Essentially, it’s like a chore and almost never get to the point of actually producing meaningful results. Does that sound familiar? This is the death spiral of recruiting metrics and it is evolving drastically in this post AI world.

Kortney Harmon [00:03:08]:
Now let me be brutally honest, if you’re not leveraging AI in your recruiting workflows, you might as well close up shop now because your competitors who are will probably bury you in the next 18 months. Tech is evolving so fast it’s hard to keep up with. If you didn’t get a chance to listen to one of our previous episodes with Aaron Elder, the CEO here at Crelate, I encourage you to do so. He talked about that post AI world and what that means. The recruiting landscape has changed with the rise of AI technology. We’ve talked about it and and some conservative estimates show that AI driven changes will replace about 25% of jobs worldwide by 2026. And if we think recruiters or part of recruiting is immune, we probably need to think again. So let’s talk about some warning signs to show that you’re stuck on this KPI hamster wheel in the AI era.

Kortney Harmon [00:04:04]:
Number one, if you’re still doing the work AI could and should handle, that’s your first warning sign. Your team possibly is spending hours on tasks that AI systems could complete in minutes. It isn’t just efficient, it’s actually professional malpractice. In 2025, you’re falling behind by the minute. Number two warning sign is that your data lives in silos, your metrics live in different systems. And it happens. But the problem is that those systems don’t communicate. They’re preventing you from seeing the complete picture.

Kortney Harmon [00:04:40]:
In an AI era, isolated data just limits you and it actually is active sabotage towards your data and your growth of your firms. And number three, you’re looking backwards, not forwards. If you’re measuring what happened yesterday instead of what AI can predict tomorrow, you’re driving your business looking only in the review mirror. How’s that working out for you? The transition from startup to scale up is a big leap with unexpected hurdles. The same applies to transitioning from traditional recruiting to AI powered recruiting. Many aren’t going to make it, but for those who will, they’re going to thrive. So now that we’ve confronted the harsh reality, let’s talk solutions. I don’t care if it makes you uncomfortable.

Kortney Harmon [00:05:29]:
Your comfort zone is potentially what could be killing your business. We’re done being on this hamster wheel of trying to solve problems ourselves. It’s time to pull up the help chain. The help is AI and it’s non negotiable. It’s on like electricity in the background. So when you’re assessing your current recruiting KPIs through a lens of AI. You need to ask yourself, why are humans doing the work that AI should handle? If your recruiters are manually searching on LinkedIn, are you wasting human capital? Are you predicting or reporting? If your metrics can’t tell you which candidates will succeed before you hire them, your metrics might be a little dated. Can your platform learn or is it brain dead? A static system in a dynamic world isn’t just limiting, it’s suicide.

Kortney Harmon [00:06:21]:
So here’s the hard truth. If you’re still measuring the number of calls recruiters are making, instead of measuring AI powered engagement quality, the quality, not the quantity, you don’t just have a metrics problem, you potentially have a leadership problem. So let’s talk about how well functioning recruiting operations can deteriorate into exhausting cycles without the right technology foundation. This decline isn’t gradual anymore. It’s about acceleration towards being obsolete again. Did you see the episode with Aaron? He talked about the evolution of AI in the last six months. And what was being talked about last week. In this world where AI can source screen engage candidates around the clock, running your recruiting desk with purely human effort isn’t just efficient, it can be negligent.

Kortney Harmon [00:07:14]:
Here’s the warning signs. Your recruiting operations has shifted from a well oiled machine to the hamster wheel in the AI era. Number one, your recruiters are doing robot work. If your team is spending hours researching candidates when AI could be doing this automatically, we’re probably paying humans a premium rate to do the work that machines could do much better. Number two, your tech stack is a disconnected mess. We talked about those data silos. If your tools don’t talk to each other, you don’t have a technology ecosystem. It’s the junkyard.

Kortney Harmon [00:07:49]:
It’s not a platform to help your teams scale. And maybe, just maybe, your teams actually hate their jobs. When recruiters spend all day on repetitive tasks instead of building relationships, they’re very unhappy. It’s trying to keep up with all the things that happen in our work days that we just can’t keep up with. And the most dangerous thing about this KPI hamster wheel is that it feels like work. It’s just motion without progress. Your 60 hour work week means nothing if an AI system can’t produce better results in shorter time. Your expectations, your metrics, your output is going to change drastically in the next few months and even year.

Kortney Harmon [00:08:36]:
So let’s talk about seven steps to better recruiting metrics in this AI era. So let’s get Practical. I’m not here to coddle you. I’m here to save your business. The foundational success of AI integration isn’t a gentle evolution. It’s truly a radical transformation. The first thing you have to do in step one is you have to first stop measuring busy work. If you’re celebrating how many calls your recruiters are making, you’re measuring effort, not results.

Kortney Harmon [00:09:06]:
It’s like praising someone for how much they sweat instead of how far they ran. Step number two, we need to embrace AI specific outcomes. So in this AI era, if your human is handling a task that AI could. You’re not running a recruiting business, you’re running museum potentially of obsolete practices. We need to change how we think. Step number three, implement radical workflow automations. And many of you are doing this already. AI doesn’t just speed things up, it fundamentally transform what’s possible.

Kortney Harmon [00:09:40]:
If you’re just using AI to do old things faster, you can put a rocket engine on a horse cart. So hopefully you have those automations set up to help you move faster. Step number four, build a digital living platform, not a digital coffin. Most ATS systems aren’t just platforms. They’re where good data goes to die. A living platform evolves. Traditional systems just age. We don’t want to put things in a box just to have them in a box.

Kortney Harmon [00:10:13]:
Step number five, we have to deploy AI agents aggressively. Every hour your recruiter spends on research, initial outreach, or scheduling, an hour is wasted time. AI could handle those tasks for you. Step number six, redefine what actually recruiters do. And this is going to change so much in the next six months. The recruiter of 2025, who isn’t an AI wrangler, relationship builder and strategic advisor, isn’t a modern recruiter. We have to evolve how we’re handling our businesses and what a recruiter looks like in this day and age. So now step number seven is evolve or die.

Kortney Harmon [00:10:55]:
There’s no middle ground anymore. You’re either committed to continuous AI evolvement and evolution, or you’re preparing for your business’s obituary. So we’ve talked about the people and the process aspect of getting the KPI hamster wheel. Now for the harsh truth about technology. If your recruiting tech stack isn’t built on a living platform that continuously evolves with AI, it’s not an asset, it’s dragging you into irrelevance. So what exactly is a living platform? It’s the difference between survival and extinction. In recruiting, it evolves without you having to push it. Traditional systems require you to Upgrade them.

Kortney Harmon [00:11:36]:
Living platforms upgrade themselves. It’s putting something in the box. And while you put it in the box, it’s getting sunlight, it’s getting water, it’s getting nutrition. To grow and thrive and be bigger every day. It gets smarter every day. Your platform isn’t measurably more intelligent this month than last month. If it’s not alive, it’s decaying. It connects everything.

Kortney Harmon [00:12:00]:
Without human intervention, manual Data entry in 2025 isn’t just efficient, it’s something that shouldn’t happen anymore, alone, on its own. And a living platform doesn’t just store data for you, it activates it. Data sitting unused in your system isn’t an asset, it’s a wasted opportunity. We’ve all heard if it’s not in the system, it didn’t happen. So let me share a vision of what recruitment looks like with a living platform as your foundation. Imagine starting your day not with a to do list of manual tasks, but with a strategic briefing from your AI agent that you’ve already completed yesterday’s to do list while you slept. Your sourcing agent has already identified and Pre qualified 25 candidates overnight. Your outreach agent has personalized and sent communication with 40% response rate.

Kortney Harmon [00:12:50]:
Your analytics agent alerts you potential issues before they even become problems. This isn’t science fiction. It’s happening now. And if it’s not happening in your business, you’re already behind. So as we wrap up today’s episode, let me be crystal clear. The future of recruiting doesn’t belong to the hardest working or the most experienced any longer. It belongs to those who harness AI most effectively. Human effort without AI amplification is just becoming inefficient.

Kortney Harmon [00:13:19]:
The recruiters who thrive won’t be those working harder on the hamster wheel, but those who will leverage AI agents to handle routine tasks while focusing on their human talents is where it’s going to make the most impact. So if you want to continue to learn from experts on time management, networking, career development, overcoming burnout, that’s commendable. But if you’re not simultaneously implementing AI through your recruiting practices, then you’re arranging deck chairs on the Titanic. So I would encourage you to start by assessing your current technology foundation. Is it a static system that requires consistent manual updates, or is it a living platform that evolves with the rapidly changing recruiting landscape that we are in today? The future isn’t just coming, it’s already here. Dividing our industry into two groups. Those who embrace AI and those who will work for them. Thank you so much for your time today.

Kortney Harmon [00:14:16]:
This is an ever changing topic that we will continue to discuss and bring to the forefront of our industry. So stay tuned as we continue to talk about the recruiting world. In a post AI era, evolution isn’t just optional, it’s existential. That’s all for today’s episode of FDE Express. I’m Kortney Harmon with Crelate. If you have any questions or topics you’d like for us to cover in future episodes, please feel free to submit them to [email protected] or ask us live next session. And don’t forget to subscribe to our podcast. Wherever you listen and see, sign up for our monthly events to keep learning and growing your business.

Kortney Harmon [00:15:01]:
Thanks for tuning in to FDE Express, a short and sweet format of the full desk experience. We’ll see you next time.